Posted: April-13-2009 at 6:34am | IP Logged	Tweet

HA HA ..... I certainly can't speak for all the "over 50" people in the U.S. work force, but dang right, Sue and I would each take $1 million and step aside per those guidelines.   LOL   Question is, have you made the simple calculation of just how much money that is in total?  Who's gonna pay for it? 

That is a $40,000,000,000,000 buyout!

Lotta zero's in that figure....... That is $40 TRILLION

When we start talking that kind of buy out, I'd like to request mine in gold bullion please..... no cash.

Thing is.... if such a thing would actually happen (HA HA), then all 40 million of us would immediately become just 40 million more "old rich people" who would need to be taxed out of existence to redistribute the wealth...... so it would be a short lived windfall....

Maybe such a dream buyout should be tax free..... ya think?   LOL

Posted: April-13-2009 at 7:47am | IP Logged	Tweet

I don't think I could fix the economy but I would like a stipulation that if you are an American company then you must produce your product in the USA.  That way you still have jobs in the USA.  It seems like every job is going to a foreign country these days.  Also if it is made in America it needs to be sold in America.  We don't need to make it here and then import the same product in from another foreign country. 

Posted: April-13-2009 at 11:36pm | IP Logged	Tweet

Duh, it just shows how much thought I put into what I read yesterday.

I was thinking, "Hmmmmmmmmm, $40 million dollars paid out sounds better than some of the other bailouts of late." I wasn't thinking 40 million workers each getting $1 million wasn't $40 million dollars. HA HA HA HA

You're right "BugMan," there's a lottttttttttt-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa zero's in $40 trillion dollars. LOL LOL LOL

Hey "dirttracker63," I agree with what you posted above.

Posted: April-14-2009 at 4:34am | IP Logged	Tweet

I think they tried to fixed something that wasn't really broken at the time and made it worse. We now have "Company Welfare" for them to live on!

Over the last 20 years companies started pushing for quantity not QUALITY.

My brother worked at the "Press" for over 30 years until it closed. The company got to pushing for more books in less time and quality of the books went down. Other companies used inferior products in their company. Bad merchandise makes for a closed business.

Posted: April-14-2009 at 5:41am | IP Logged	Tweet

RW wrote: You're right "BugMan," there's a lottttttttttt-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa zero's in $40 trillion dollars. LOL LOL LOL

Derrrrr...ummmmm....RW?

I hadn't posted under this topic. That was SpeedRacer2 that posted the math for ya, ROFL!

This recession happened because of greed. Now I could stop right here because I'm sure I would get some interesting responses like "Yeah, those greedy CEO's have really stuck it to us!". Nope, trust me it's not them. It's the goofs in Washington DC that have run this country into the ground. They're so deep into our pockets and are so on the take that the line is blurred between what's real and what's not. They're so out of touch with the average American that it is scary.

I think alot of people voted for what they thought was some sort of savior that was going to somehow wave a magic wand and everything would be fine. Well, he's waved it all right. Those nuts have waved us right into a debt unheard of until a few months ago. They've already spent more money than ALL administrations from the beginning of this country's history have spent COMBINED!

You can't tax and spend your way into prosperity. What they've done will hurt our nation for many years to come.

So how do we overcome it and what would I do to fix it? I would shrink the government down to where it should be (small) and remind them all that they are servants, not money magnets. I would then make it easier on individuals by cutting out the income tax altogether and base our nation's income intake on what an individual consumes.

Think about it: let's just use a 10% consumption tax rate because it's an easy figure to work with, keeping in mind that the Fed's rate would probably be much less.

What this means that instead of paying an income tax, when you go buy something you will be taxed at a rate of $1.00  for every $10 you spend (that's 10% for those of you whom haven't had their morning coffee yet). If you are rich and buy more stuff, you will pay more taxes. If you don't have much money, you're not going to spend as much so you won't be paying as much in taxes because you will be buying less. It's fair for all, and all will have to pay it. There won't be any loopholes to jump through, and the businesses will be responsible for collecting and sending the money in because they are the ones you are paying for their goods/services (just like they do with the state's sales tax). The bookkeeping would be simple. One book for whatever the state rate is and one for the Fed.  

I would then stress the one thing that nobody seems to stress these days and that is that it will be up to the individual as to how successful he or she is going to be regardless of how things appear at the top. The government has NEVER gotten us out of a recession, INDIVIDUALS have...that means all of us together. Nothing happens in this country to bring us success until something is sold. To have something to sell, one must make it and the consumer has to have money to buy it. Paying only for what you use instead of some pre-determined rate that you need to pay your government is way more fair and puts more money in the individual's pocket.

Guess what? If one has more money, they spend more money, the demand for goods and services will rise, that creates jobs, and BINGO...we're out of the worst recession in 80 years.

Psssst! It's not that hard, but they want you to think it is so they can continue to live in their fantasy world.

Posted: April-14-2009 at 8:13am | IP Logged	Tweet

Excellent post Bug!

..and absolutely "right on!"

Posted: April-14-2009 at 2:43pm | IP Logged	Tweet

 The goverment just became a major stockholder in GM, more or less, when they gave those billions to GM. Just like most lenders do , there were conditions on the loan. They didn't fire GM's ceo, they just made it plain if GM wanted the money, their leadership, that put them in that financial state, had to change.

 That's not communism, or facism , just common sense.

 To lump communism and facism together is a mistake, the way the two different forms of goverments deal with business and industry are about opposite of each other.

Posted: April-14-2009 at 9:49pm | IP Logged	Tweet

Sorry, I don't have time to read all of this, but my comment, in case it hasn't been said before, is to let the free markets work.  If companies can't make a profit, they should fail.  Also, if people can't qualify for a home loan, don't give them one.  dangit, there is a reason they have to qualify, it is because they are SUPPOSED TO pay it back.

On another note, ST1, that last statement would have gotten you thrown in jail or made to disappear back during the "Red Scare" of the early 1900's and again in the 1940's-1950's.  Look it up with google if you want some info on communism in the United States.

Nowadays it isn't Communisim or Socialism "we" are scared of as a country (government) it is now conservatives that believe the government is screwing the taxpayers.  According to homeland security we better watch out for those upset conservatives.

Posted: April-14-2009 at 10:10pm | IP Logged	Tweet

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I can read. But you'd never know it, especially after I referred to "BugMan" instead of "SpeedRacer." Heck, I knew I was reading what "SpeedRacer" had posted and not "BugMan."

Who knows why I referred to "BugMan." Maybe I had you on my mind and was thinking about you, you sexy ol' thang you "BugMan." HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Hey man, excellent reply in explaining things.

Posted: April-15-2009 at 7:29am | IP Logged	Tweet

You're not alone ST-1. There are many people who are interested in how Communism works. It has been said that "Perfect Communism" would be the absolute best form of government. However, there never has been and never will be such a thing.

I'm a free market guy. Like Old Pro, I'm about letting the market decide who succeeds and who fails. Just look at GM now. They bailed them out and and they are going to file bankruptcy anyway! How stupid was it to bail them out now? They really don't know what they're doing other than sticking their collective fingers in their mouths and holding them up in the air so they can figure out which way the wind is blowing.

They should've let GM go. And the VOLT??? LOL! Gimme a break...if gas prices are still low next year when it's scheduled to come out, who's gonna shuck out 40k for one?

Rugged individualism made this country and is the only thing that will bring it back. When they let the markets work like they should instead of feeding it with our money, we'll be back.

A couple other notes here:

Whomever made the statement about changing over the workforce by sending the cheap jobs overseas is absolutely right. Not all of them, but the vast majority of those jobs are/were entry level. Somebody tell me they're upset that all of those telemarketing jobs are in India, and that we really need them now, LOL!

This "redistribution of wealth" that our current President speaks of won't work either. Did you know that the rich and the "more well off" are the only ones paying taxes in this country? Roughly half of this country doesn't even pay taxes, so we need the rich to keep paying them or it's gonna get much worse. One perfect example is the State of New York. Eight Million people and almost all of the state taxes there are paid by roughly 40,000! Unbelievable! Now are you ready for some Fed numbers? From the IRS site, here's the breakdown:

• 86% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of wage earners. That's up from 84% in the year 2000.
• The top 50% pay 97% of ALL income taxes.
• This one blows my mind: The top 1% of wage earners pay 39% of ALL federal income tax!

So you see? We kind of need the rich don't we? By the way, when was the last time ANYONE got a job from a poor person?

This country is all about being whatever you want to be. If you want to be successful, fine. If you just want to get by, fine. Freedom allows us to be completely who we are and to accomplish what we want. Unfortunately, the ones who achieve wild success are criticized by the ones who do not, and the politicians feed off of them by telling them it's unfair that it has happened to them. This "class envy" just fills a certain political party with glee. They're going to tell you at every turn that your government is here to help you out of that and it is shameful that one should have more than the other (although it has been that way since the beginning of time)...

...It's not up to them, it's up to you.

Posted: April-15-2009 at 8:23am | IP Logged	Tweet

The most important thing affecting this country right now, excluding the open border on the south and anchor babies, is the ever increasing dependence on government aid and handouts.  Actually immigration and anchor babies is hand and hand with this.

But, it's not what you think.  It's not about the fact that this spent money burdens the American Taxpayer.  That's not the "Big Picture".

The real "Big Picture" is that these handouts and welfare, open borders, anchor babies, etc, are changing the landscape of this country from a voter's perspective, and is being used by the very people that have been in power for years...you know, those elected officials that are "career politicians", and mostly democrats, to gain and keep power.

Here's how it works in a nutshell:

Low/No income voter gets government aid.  Said worker votes democrat and incumbant to assure that they continue to get aid.  Political landscape continues to get more corrupt due to no change in leadership/power.  More aid is dispersed, taxes raised (eventually will have to be to pay for it), Low/No income voter continues to be happy and continues to vote democrat and status quo.

It's a fact, elections are bought, but it's not the way most think (with advertisements and big spending at election time), it is by handing out as much taxpayer money as possible to keep power, and welfare is the biggest form of that.

I'm sorry, but instead of the government dolling out trillions for welfare and aid, they should simply give more tax incentives for people to donate to non-profits and religious organizations, but require that the donated money be used to help people in need instead of build nice big churches and buildings.

The landscape of this country has changed dramatically since Reagan gave amnesty to all illegal aliens.  And, in my opinion, it didn't change in a positive way.  We haven't gotten the full effect yet, but we will, because we will have to pay our government deficit spending bills soon enough, and the only way that will happen is to tax the hell out of those that are productive.

Posted: April-15-2009 at 10:04am | IP Logged	Tweet

Bugman left something out of his statistics.

The top 25% of wage earners who paid 85 % of the taxes, got 66% of the wages.

The top 1% who paid 39% of the taxes, got 19% of the wages.

The bottom 50%,who paid 3% of the taxes, got 13% of the wages.

Posted: April-15-2009 at 11:08am | IP Logged	Tweet

Hey Tom, do you think that your statistics mean that the "wages" should be taken from each class of individuals and redistributed?

If so, I think you'd be surprised with the actual outcome of making it "fair":

The top 1% would have their taxes go down since they only got 19% of the wages.
The top 25% would have their taxes go down since they only got 66% of the wages.
And the big surprise?
The bottom 50% would go up since they got 13% of the wages but paid only 3% of the taxes.

Interesting.  Don't know where you got the statistics, but they seem to argue against raising the tax of the middle class and rich and instead making the poor pay taxes.

Posted: April-15-2009 at 12:09pm | IP Logged	Tweet

If your adjusted gross income was about $31,000 or less in 2006, you're in the lower 50% of wage earners, who got 13% of the wages but paid 3 % of the taxes.

I got the info from probably the same site as Bug, he left out the wages earned by each group.

I think those statistics were from 2006. Later statistics are a little different, the top 1% now earn 22% of the wages.

The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. ( the origional song went " The rich get rich, and the poor have children,)

Earlier we were talking about Rick Waggoner, in the few years he was ceo of GM he earned more in wages alone,  than the lifetime earnings of everybody on this forum combined, maybe even several times more. Plus his stock options and benifit package is about twice what his wages were.

Posted: April-16-2009 at 12:53am | IP Logged	Tweet

fgilley wrote: Hey Bug I am upset that those customer service jobs went to India because when you call customer support they can't communicate with you in many instances, LOL! I could care less about the telemarketers, because we know how to handle them, "click" but the customer service thing makes me mad!

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Forest, you've hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head.

One night last week when I called my Internet tech support due to an issue, guess what? I got some Indian (India) spool-head I couldn't understand at all. And this is how it is probably 85 percent of the time I call tech support.

Anyway, this person I was trying to communicate with, I finally said: "Listen, we're getting nowhere. I cannot understand what you're trying to say to me."

He said, "Meeeeeeeester Walden, listen to me closely." He then spoke. I told him to either connect me with someone who spoke clear English like I was, or I was hanging up. Because I'm not going to waste my time trying to communicate with you or someone else I can't understand."

Guess what? He transferred me to of all things, it sounded like a red-blooded American like me.

I told the guy, "I can't believe it, it's a miracle. I've got in contact with someone I can actually understand." The guy cracked up laughing. He said, "I can't really comment about what you've said, but I do understand where you're coming from."

I told the guy one of the main reasons I'm switching Internet providers next month (after being with Prodigy/Yahoo/AT&T since April of 1998, the only Internet provider I've had since I got my first computer in spring of '98) is because I know who I'm going with is in the United States, they don't utilize foreign tech support people.

Posted: April-16-2009 at 1:01am | IP Logged	Tweet

I nominate "SpeedRacer," "OldPro" and "BugMan" for public office. HA HA HA HA HA

Hey, I don't care to admit it when I'm in over my head ... but you sure won't get me discussing issues you guys have brought up. Why? Because I'm too doggone dumb, that's why!!! HA HA HA HA HA ... Nah, I ain't dumb. I just don't keep up with issues/statistics and so forth like you guys have dissected in your posts.

I watch local TV news/weather/sports daily. I know what's happening in my local surroundings. I guess I maybe figure that's all I need to know. I watch Fox News Channel, CNN and MSNBC talk shows. I read my home-delivered daily newspaper basically from cover-to-cover. Well, except for some of the national headline news stories.

Anyway "SpeedRacer," "OldPro" and "BugMan" ... don't be expecting me to debate either of you. I'll just ask "WOO-WOO" to bake some brownies and I'll help her eat them and listen to y'all. LOL LOL LOL

Posted: April-16-2009 at 5:50am | IP Logged	Tweet

My figures were from the IRS's own website and are current. There were no incomes, just statistics. I used their own figures. If the IRS can't get it right then nobody can since they are the ones that have the hard/raw numbers to compute.

As for the former CEO of GM, I don't care what he made. It's kind of like professional sports athletes; I don't care what they make either. If an owner/corporation is willing to pay those dollars to get that CEO or athlete, then that is their market value. Surely you don't think they should say "Oh no Mr owner...that's way too much money".

I think it's sad that some would rather be envious of people like that. I'm not upset, envious, or jealous at all that many, many people have more money and success than I do. I made my bed and carved my niche. I don't get incensed or hysterical because some dude has 20 mil in his retirement account. I'm glad I don't have his tax bill.

Let me simplify this: I don't care what Tom makes either, or Speedracer2 or OldPro or Hugh Hefner or Donald Trump or ST-1. I care what I make. Am I disgusted at what the GM CEO makes? No I'm not. The dude climbed the ladder to run one of the largest companies in the world. I'm not sure I'd want to be him either because he was obviously successful on his way up, but is now going to be remembered as the dude who got fired by the President. If you think he's laughing all the way to the bank, think again. I know people that make millions of dollars. When they fail, it's on a much larger scale and it hurts them just as bad as the guy who got laid off in the mines. Most of these people actually know we're counting on them to do great things like create jobs. Ever wonder why people who seem to have everything sometimes take their own lives? Many times it's just not about the money...it's about achievement.

People achieve on different levels according to their efforts. Again, it has been that way since the beginning of time. Punishing achievement might make a few of us happy, but it's the wrong thing to do and will send this country into a deeper tailspin if it continues.

This country needs great leaders. This country needs people who are successful so that the ones who have the kahunas to climb that tall-arsed ladder to great success will have something to shoot for. If the Fed keeps trying to "water it down", we'll end up being a bunch of mindless skulls full of nothing more than spam, and that will surely put our Federal Government in control of our lives. Nobody wants that...do they?

Not everyone in this country will end up successful and financially independent. However the great thing about this country is that if one sets their mind to it, they too can achieve whatever successes they wish. It's up to them. This is the only nation in the universe that can make that claim. Isn't it awesome to have that opportunity?! Unfortunately, the clock might be ticking on that one, and I think that is just wrong.

Posted: April-16-2009 at 7:46am | IP Logged	Tweet

I have a theory, and this isn't class or age warfare, just the simple truth...I think.

I believe that too many young people were brought up in homes that didn't require they work at age 16, instead giving them nearly everything they desired, let them participate in any sport they wanted at school, parents spoiled them.  Now, they are in college or can't find a job because they don't know how, and instead of being hard working, productive, citizens, they are looking to the government for answers.

I fear this is the case, and wonder how you teach these new voters to depend on themselves, not the government.  Because if they depend on the government, voting that way, then we are all going to end up depending on the government when the government decides to take what so many have worked so hard for and "redistribute" it.  That's when even more people will throw up their collective hands and say "what did I work so hard for" and just join what they can't beat and more will depend on the government.

That is the route to socialism and maybe even communism that we are currently heading towards in this country.

That's my theory, but I DO hope I am wrong.

Posted: April-16-2009 at 8:58am | IP Logged	Tweet

Dead on OldPro!

What scares me is that they keep trying to socialize medicine too. If that were to ever happen and the doctors start throwing their hands in the air and stop looking for new ways to keep us healthy and find cures for diseases, one won't have to worry about how long they'll live. They'll be making their collective "bucket lists" much earlier...

...not to mention we would be putting ONE SEVENTH of the entire GNP into the Fed's hands. That's frightening!

Posted: April-17-2009 at 3:25pm | IP Logged	Tweet

ok here i think should fix the problem  

1)  if you  aint in the usa legally  or trying to get the citizenship  you should not be elgible for employment , state funded insuarance  or goverment assistance

2)  if you ant rying to get the citizenship you need to pack all your belongings  alon gwith your family  and go back were you come from

3) give everybody  that is trying to get their citizenship  and  the citizens of usa   1.5 million dollars

4) cut out all goverment assistance   except for disibility  and ss    and cut their 1.5 million down to 500000.00  and  after that if you go broke   you go broke 

 5) and if it aint american made dont buy it    due to he chines and japanese  just make junk  and sell the junk over here  for our low lifve stores to buy and resale  at  higher prices

Posted: April-17-2009 at 4:34pm | IP Logged	Tweet

OldPro, I agree with you 100%!!

The world we "older folks" (40+) grew up in is totally different from today's world. We sassed our parents or one of our elders we got a whipping, our mouth washed out and felt ashamed of what we did when all was said and done. Today's kids got give a rat's behind what they say, where they say it and who they say it too.

The morals of the world have slipped to a all time low, I think. Kids have more rights than the parents, inmates have a better life in prison than most of us do. We have to work for what we eat and have, they don't.

If you work here in the USA even if you are from across the border-PAY TAXES and PAY for your OWN medical and dental coverage like the rest of working class has to do.

A lot of people today live WAY beyond their means. They try to keep up with the Jones. Bigger is not always better. Just more cost in the long run.

As for the for the mess we are in-IMPEACH the President and the ones who approved these bail-outs-GARNISH THEIR WAGES for repayment!!!!