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jilton07
Rookie
Joined: May-05-2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2
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| Posted: May-05-2014 at 12:39pm | IP Logged
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Saturday night the LMSC division at Lonesome Pine had 10 Late Model cars. They filled the starting grid… to get 18… with trucks from the Southeast Super Truck series in the attempt to count for a full field of NASCAR points. We are not talking about some of the LMSC teams with two cars and using one for a start and park. These were trucks, not Late Models. If you had a Late Model at LPR this weekend, you would have been guaranteed a top 10. This is not right!!! Something needs to be done about this since LPR is submitting National Points based on a full field. If you are competing in the National Points race, you should let your voice be heard!
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racingjason
Track Champion
Joined: September-19-2004
Location: United States
Posts: 459
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| Posted: May-06-2014 at 7:40pm | IP Logged
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They had late model license.
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jilton07
Rookie
Joined: May-05-2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2
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| Posted: May-07-2014 at 7:22am | IP Logged
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Seriously?!?!? That's your answer? They were trucks for crying out loud!!! The 1st week they used Street Stocks. If they have a late model license and start and park a late model, I could see your argument. It still doesn't make it right, but I see your point. When they are using trucks or any other car from another class to fill the field you cant even argue that it is right. Why not roll a bunch of pure 4 cars out on the track. There is no difference. Regardless of the track which would pull this, they should be excluded from the NASCAR points system.
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Van_84
Moderator Group
Joined: December-24-2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: May-07-2014 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
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I absolutely agree with jilton07 on this issue. By utilizing the Southeast Super Truck Series to "fill" the Late Model Stock Car field, Lonesome Pine Raceway falsified the official NASCAR National Points. I understand the thought process behind their decision to do so; but in my opinion, that was a highly unethical move regardless of whether or not the drivers had a LMSC license.
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stoney34
Rookie
Joined: November-28-2010
Location: United States
Posts: 42
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| Posted: May-07-2014 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
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most of the time i dont coment just read this stuff but at least Keith Stilner is trying to make a go at this and we should stand behind him during the roughest times and in time it will come around and i wish them the best just suport them because he didnt have to take on this responsibilty he could have made it just fine without it give it a chance
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LocalRacer
Heat Winner
Joined: September-12-2010
Posts: 51
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| Posted: May-07-2014 at 8:43pm | IP Logged
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I don't post much on here either. Just a part time weekly racer who tries to enjoy my hobby. But I don't think that anybody at that track, management or racers, really understands the whole concept of why the magic 18 car field number. NASCAR handicaps the state and national points calculation based on car count. The NASCAR points reward racers who compete against more cars. NASCAR uses what they refer to as an index system. For a time NASCAR considered 25 cars to be a full field. They reduced that number when car counts dropped at most tracks. Now NASCAR has dropped that full field number again to the current 18. If the Late Model field consists of 18 or more cars, the drivers get a multiple of 1.0 times the standard points for national points purposes. If the field of cars is 17, the factor (or index) reduces. The index factor reduces down the line as car count is less. I don't think some fans would have any problem with the track running two or three divisions together if that is what the track wanted to do, and if the cars were actually racing. But, there is a NASCAR state championship at stake too. There are other tracks in Virginia which have a real full field of real Late Model cars and all are racing. At LPIR we keep seeing half or more of the cars park when the green flag is waved. We see Street Stocks and Modified 4s and this past weekend trucks from a touring series which is not even NASCAR sanctioned added to pad car count. Why? Everybody knows they are not really racing. Who are they trying to fool? They are trying to fool NASCAR and trying to get the maximum index factor for points for state and national points. But there ten or so actual late Model cars are not really competing against 18 cars. Half of the field parks when the green flag waves, or before it waves. The car count in no way affects the local track points calculation. There are tracks even in Virginia, but certainly in the northeast and out west, which have no problem at all having a full field of legitimate race cars. Another thing that the track management is not considering is that normally the state and national champions, except state champion in Tennessee which has only one track, are always drivers who end up winning 100% of their counted races. LPIR is not going to have either a state or a national champion because LPIR will end up with probably four drivers and maybe more winning races this year. They are padding the field and artificially trying to give their drivers maximum index factor for no real reason. Also, to my understanding, NASCAR is not allowing all those start and park non Late Model cars and trucks to count for state and national points anyway. So, NASCAR is not counting them. The fans are not seeing any of those extra cars and trucks really race. I just cannot understand the point and don't see why LPIR feels they have to have a fake 18 car field. You yourself stoney34 have been one of those field padders at LPIR this year. So you got to drive another driver's Street Stock Camaro around the track to start and park. For what? That car you drove, which I will point out is not your car so no reflection on you, is not even competitive in Street Stock.Who are they trying to impress? Race with what you got. If there are 10 Late Models, race 10 Late Models. When the green flag waves, that is what they have left on the track anyway. NASCAR pays big money in state and national point funds. To fake the number of drivers who are actually racing is not quite ethical is it? When it could take NASCAR point money away from drivers who really do race against 18 and more real Late Models every week? I just do not understand what exactly they are trying to accomplish.
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Van_84
Moderator Group
Joined: December-24-2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: May-07-2014 at 9:14pm | IP Logged
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For anyone who has ANY business sense at all, it is easy to see that this is an unethical practice and needs to stop now. You may be able to justify 1-2 start & parks, but 8 that aren't even late models!?!? Come on now. You have to open your eyes and see what's really going on here. This isn't rocket science.
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lurch
Feature Winner
Joined: September-30-2003
Posts: 177
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| Posted: May-11-2014 at 10:39am | IP Logged
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in any aspect start and park isn't right nascar points are set up o were it rewards a driver to wanna run tracks with bigger car counts instead of nit picking tracks with only 8 to 10 cars to win national points lpir isn't the only track tht does the start and park so don't throw them under the bus wasn't too many years ago phillip morris brought 3 and 4 cars to the track bought other cars tires paid cars to run to win the points so was that right no it wasn't its nothing new tho been happing for years
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Racerslounge Message Forums
: ASPHALT Racing
Topic: Manipulating the LMSC count with Trucks
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